Chaos in Gaza: Saving Fatah from the Palestinians

05/17/2007

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by Moderator @ 12:03 PM CST [Link]

Replies: 10 comments

So what can be done?

We can criticize Israel for contributing to the vacuum that enables the Hamas to rise and act, but this doesn't change the fact that Israelis are being attacked, and Israel must do something to defend them.

Should it agree to a ceasefire in the West Bank, or is the danger that he Hamas will rise there too great.

If there is no alternative, a military solution must be employed even if it is not perfect. The status quo is not acceptable.

If so, it seems doubtful that attacks from the air and artillery will be sufficient.We have seen that in Lebanon. So a ground assault is necessary. Hopefully the army is ready this time.

The goals must be realistic: to destroy as much as possible of the weapons in the hands of the Hamas, arrest as many of their operatives, gain better intelligence, hopefully discredit them in Gaza, try to get other forces to help rebuild afterwards, and do all that very quickly so as to avoid prolonged suffering and reduce the chance of a mistake resulting in civilian casualties.

At present I see no other choice, unless the threat of such an attack will be enough to reduce the flames before things worsen.

Any other solution? Even one that isn't perfect?

Posted by Micha @ 05/17/2007 06:59 PM CST

Surely the answer for the moment is for Israel to remain as calm as possible, where defensive counter strikes are deemed necessary make sure they are clearly targetted at the Palestinian armed forces.

It is not Israels business if the Palestinians choose to kill each other. Israel I believe has done what it could to limit the flow of weapons into Gaza.
All nations in their formative years resort to violence and when they get sick of the violence and suffering then they develop the means to live at peace with themselves and their neighbours. For most of us in the "West", our ancestors did all this killing stuff for us and we just inherited their values.

As some people like to draw comparisons with Ireland I shall do the same. It has taken the Irish about 3000 years to learn that violence only produces dead people. Peace is a wonderful thing but you can't rush into it without a full understanding of its value. The Palestinians have yet to work out its value for themselves yet. The Jews on the other hand have had a considerable headstart on most other nations in this learning process.
It's time to be calm, quiet and patient.

Posted by Rod Davies @ 05/17/2007 09:26 PM CST

"Surely the answer for the moment is for Israel to remain as calm as possible, where defensive counter strikes are deemed necessary make sure they are clearly targetted at the Palestinian armed forces."

The problem is that defensive counter measures don't seem to work, and the people living near Gaza cannot live with the daily attacks, even if there are no deaths so far.

If it weren't for that Israel could allow the Palestinians to continue fighting each other.

Posted by Micha @ 05/17/2007 09:37 PM CST

Micha,
Does your comment mean that what the Israeli government is doing at present in response to the rocket attacks is merely intended to give the impression of activity rather than the pursuit of a meaningful objective?
Perhaps the only way to choke off the rocket attacks is to deny the Palestinians the means of manufacture. To do this of course would mean disabling electricity supply & generation facilities, preventing the import of metals and tooling, etc. This would impact on all Palestinians in Gaza and take some time to achieve as there must be stores of materials.
Of course the international community would howl if Israel attempted to destroy the Palestinians means to manufacture weapons.
Whatever route Israel takes, it will be damned for it.

Posted by Rod Davies @ 05/18/2007 11:11 AM CST

"Does your comment mean that what the Israeli government is doing at present in response to the rocket attacks is merely intended to give the impression of activity rather than the pursuit of a meaningful objective?"

I'm not sure. And even if they have a meaningful objective, I'm not sure they have the right strategy to achieve it. I'm just hoping the Israeli Army and government today are smarter than they were a year ago. But I'm not certain.

In any case, the job of the army and government at this stage is to find the best way to allow the people of Shderot to live their lives. At present it is hard to believe that there is a non military way that is a good way, although I'm not sure they looked.

Ami has listed in detail the flaws of any course of action. But we have no choice but to take an action. We cannot simply let things remain as they are. It is necessary to find the best but imperfect course of action in a very imperfect situation.

"Whatever route Israel takes, it will be damned for it."

True. And that is only one of the difficulties in dealing with the situation, but we must.

"Perhaps the only way to choke off the rocket attacks is to deny the Palestinians the means of manufacture. To do this of course would mean disabling electricity supply & generation facilities, preventing the import of metals and tooling, etc. This would impact on all Palestinians in Gaza and take some time to achieve as there must be stores of materials."

I don't think this method wil work while causing harm to civilians, and to Israel.

At present I have difficulty of finding any other method other than a ful scale invasion. Perhaps Israel should start mobilizing its reserves (also in case of escalation in the west bank), and hope that either the Palestinians or somebody else will act to prevent a full ground assault. But if they do not, we must be ready to do it, and this time do it right. Be prepared for their tactics. Harm them in a way that is clear and visible. We should do this even if afterwards they'll rebuild. The alternative -- letting them continue -- seems worse.

Posted by Micha @ 05/18/2007 05:47 PM CST

It seems to me that the Palestinians need to go trough the growing process described in the article.. learn to appreciate peace, learn to choose responsible leaders, and learn that alowing paramilitary forces ( i.e. what Hammas was before it became government.. or what seems today to be its military wing) can not lead them to a functioning society. They must have thought that it was very smart to keep such forces active to be able to play the double game.. have Abbas to negotiate concesions.. and Hammas and Islamic Jihad to continue to attack Israelis.. it seems now they must have learned that such tactics have a price....
Anyway as I said Israel should try to let them sort things out among themselves.... getting involved will only prevent the palestinians from lerning what they must.. it would be great to find some technical solution to the Kazzams... it would seem that even a temporary evacuation of Sderot does seem worth contemplating in this particular instance.. either that or some action that destroys their ability to make and fire rockets.. without sending troops into Gaza. Electricity cut-offs perhaps?

Posted by Daniel @ 05/19/2007 02:05 AM CST

what has happened to lebanon war man

Posted by eman.tellaoui @ 05/21/2007 07:10 AM CST

An alternative to the tit for tat fire that is currently happening might be a different approach.
1. Mass leaflet drops on Gaza explaining to the Palestinians what the short, medium and long term consequences of both Fatah's and Hamas' inept actions are.
2. Develop interactive game for PC in CD / DVD in which the player can explore the range of political options showing how violence will utlimately lead just to more violence and the destruction of Palestinian national ambitions. These games are very popular and very persuasive in other environments. These could be dropped on Gaza
3. An absolutely neutral radio / TV broadcast which features pro-peace Palestinians discussing the issues and the way forward to counteract the constant flow of pro-violence pro-hate propoganda.
4. Lots of information to the Palestinians linking the costs of the conflict to their falling standard of living. "1 bullet = so many loaves of bread" "The fighters eat while you starve".
5. Perhaps even use religion. If Muslims are Gods elect and the Jews Gods discarded, then why are is Allah letting the Jews beat the Muslims as if they were dogs? Can it be that Allah has chosen the Jews as a tool to punish Muslims for their trangressions, for the Wahabi perversion of Islam?
Perhaps this is being done already. Perhaps my ideas are naive. But it seems a better way than blowing up more people and creating more hatred on both sides.

Posted by Rod Davies @ 05/21/2007 10:44 PM CST

It was clear since many, many years ago that this was going to happen. Sharon should have delivered Gaza to PNA precisely to avoid this. He did not because he wants this to happen. Now is happening. Nothing can be done. The dice were cast long ago. The plan of Sharon was good and is working fine. Destruction and civil people dying was an accepted toll. Next part of the plan is an islamist Palestinian state is destroyed by Israel. Only people who want peace can see this as a problem. Wherever Sharon's soul is now, is probably congratulating himself. Mission accomplished.

Posted by Aleph @ 05/28/2007 03:41 PM CST

Aleph,
No matter what Sharon may have wished or not wished he could not create for the Palestinians an effective civilain government. IMO one of the biggest problems for the Palestinians has been that the "Friends of Palestine" have failed to provide constructive criticism about the way that they have been ordering their society. My recollection is that the first thing that the PNA did following its arrival in Jericho was to start building various security forces each effectively independent of each other. As time progressed and Arafat became frustrated with Israels attitudes in negotiations he authorised the deployment of the quasi-independent forces. But once of the bottle they were impossible to contain and they became the force which directed political developments. Instead of berating Arafat and this development, the Friends of Palestine sought to justify and legitimise the activities of these armed forces.
Ultimately if the Palestinians want peace they will have to disarm all these factions and bring all security forces under a single command subject to the control of the elected government. Personally I don't think they have the will to do it, so chaos will continue. Perhaps when they have spent all their moeny on bullets and are starving they will be driven to take action.

Posted by Rod Davies @ 05/29/2007 10:31 AM CST

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