War Fever

08/01/2006

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Original text copyright by the author and MidEastWeb for Coexistence, RA. Posted at MidEastWeb Middle East Web Log at http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000494.htm where your intelligent and constructive comments are welcome. Distributed by MEW Newslist. Subscribe by e-mail to mew-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. Please forward by email with this notice and link to and cite this article. Other uses by permission.

by Moderator @ 09:01 AM CST [Link]

Replies: 8 comments

It is obvious to me and to many other Muslims and Arabs that Israel is a terrorist state, specially after her raking work in Lebanon. Every body is looking to what Israel and her backer America are doing to this region? May this will stimulate the feeling of get even with Israel. This feeling might be translated to a unify effort to put all our strength together and spell whatever inside feeling to work. First get rid of all absticles in our way of Palestine liberation from those terrorist Zionist Israelis, and then build what it takes to dismantle this terrorist state Israel, and solve it and get Palestine liberated.It is not going be far away, it is not going to be far away.

Posted by Mohammad Hasanat @ 08/01/2006 11:23 PM CST

Mohammad - I suggest that instead of resorting to petty name-calling and making inflammatory proclamations you take a moment to act as the article suggests and listen to the other side. It cannot be denied that the Palestinians have also resorted to terrorism as a means to achieve their goal and the PA in fact has an internationally sanctioned terrorist organization at its helm but this does not lead me to the conclusion that all Palestinians are terrorists. Nor should anyone reach such erroneous conclusions regarding Israel. Such dogmatic claims (on both sides) will only lead to further bloodshed.

Posted by adam werner @ 08/02/2006 10:50 AM CST

I AM A US CITIZEN AND AM SICK OF ISREAL'S AND THE UNITED STATES
BULLSHITTT. I WANT HIZBOLLAH AND HAMAS TO WIPE ISREAL OF THE FACE OF
THE EARTH. ACTUALLY BACK TO 1947 BORDERS, LOL, WHEN THEY WERENT' THERE
AT ALL. I ENJOY EVERY IDF'S SOLDIER'S DEATH WITH A NICE AMERICAN BEER.
I WAS REALLY DRUNK THE DAY 9 BASTARDS DIED. LOL. NOW ISREAL YOU WANT
PEACE, YOU WILL NEVER HAVE IT. JEWS ACROSS THE WORLD, DO YOU EVER
WONDER WHY YOU ARE HATED, I'LL TELL YOU WHY. MOST JEWS ARE NOT BLACK,
THEY ARE NOT ORIENTAL, PHYSICALLY THEY JUST LOOK LIKE THE COMMON
AVERAGE WHITE MAN. SO WHY ARE THEY HATED???? CAN'T BE RACISM RIGHT??
THEY LOOK THE SAME. I'LL TELL YOU WHY THEY ARE HATED. ITS IN THEIR
FAITH, AND THEIR VIEWS OF EVERYONE ELSE THAT IS NOT JEWISH. THEY THINK
THAT THEY ARE THE CHOSEN ONES. THEY ARE PREFERED BY GOD. THEY ARE MORE
IMPORTANT THEN OTHER CIVILIZATIONS. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE HATED. FOR
EXAMPLE, WHEN 60 CIVILIANS, DIED IN LEBANON, THEY APOLOGIZED, WHEN UN
MILITARY DIED, THEY APOLOGIZED, WHEN THE ENTIRE INFRASTRUCTURE OF
LEBANON IS BEING DESTROYED THEY SAY THEY ARE NOT AGAINST THE LEBANESE.
THEN THE PRIME MINISTER SAYS ON TV THAT THIS WILL TEACH ANYONE WHO WILL
LOB MISSLES AT ISREAL. DO YOU SEE THE CONTRADICTION??? THATS OK,
NOTHING WILL CHANGE THESE IDIOTS. MEL GIBSON WAS NOT DRUNK, HE IS
STATING FACTS THAT MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT SAY OUT LOUD. I WILL SAY IT.
AND FOR ALL THE READERS IN THIS FUCCCKKKEN WEBSITE, ESPECIALLY THE
AMERICANS THAT FAVOR THESE BACKWARD MINDED ASSSHHOOLLES, I AM PROUDLY
ANNOUNCING THAT I AM AN AMERICAN PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER. LOL.

THATSS RIGHT I TEACH IN YOUR PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. YOU WANT TO CAUSE
PROBLEMS TO ARABS ON THEIR LAND, WELL I CAN EDUCATE AND AM EDUCATING
THE FUTURE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES ON HOW RACIST AND LIARS ISREAL
IS. I AM EDUCATING PEOPLE, WITH SUCCESS BY THE WAY, THAT THE JEWS ARE
NOT THE CHOSEN ONE, BUT GOD ACTUALL LOVES EVERYONE IF HE DOES EXIST.
YOUR MORALLITY BULLSHITTT WILL NOT WORK WHEN I AM THROUGH MAKING PEOPLE
SMARTER. LOL. AND I AM SMART ENOUGHT TO DO IT IN A SMARTER MANNER THAN
THE ISREALIS. HITLER WAS AN ASSSHOOOLE, BUT SO WHERE THE JEWS AS YOU
CAN SEE BY THEIR SIMILIAR ACTION TO HITLER. THEY ARE BEHAVING IN
EXACLTLY THE SAME MANNER, ACCEPT THEY COVER IT UP WITH APOLOGIES. AND
THEN THE DUMB AMERICANS AS USUAL BELIEVE THEM. LIKE I SAID, I AM AN
AMERICAN PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER THAT TEACHES YOUR JEWISH KIDS.
I NEVER HATED THE JEWS BEFORE, IN CASE YOU ARE TRYING TO PSYCHOANALYSE
ME. DO YOU KNOW WHEN I STARTED HATING THE JEWS. EXACTLY 3 WEEKS AGO.
SO IS THAT RACISM??? NO IT IS NOT. THE JEWS ACT IN A MANNER THAT IS
WORTH HATING. WHAT DID JESUS DO TO THEIR FAITH THAT THEY FOUND SOOOO
DEVASTATING. NOTHING. THE JEWS WILL ALWAYS BE KNOWN AS THE THE RACE
THAT TURNED JESUS IN TO THE ROMANS. THEY DID NOT DIRECTLY KILL JESUS,
BUT THEY TURNED HIM IN TO BE KILLED. AND THEN CHRISTIANS SUPPORT THEM,
LOL. THE OLD TESTAMENT IS NOT LINKED BEAUTIFALLY TO THE NEW TESTEMANT
AS IF JEWS AND CHRISTIANS ARE BROTHERS. NO. THE FACT IS THAT JEWS ,
CHRISTIANS AND MOSLIMS DO NOT AGREE ON WHAT GOD IS OR WHAT HE IS TRYING
TO DO. SO THAT IS WHY I CELEBRATE ALL THE DEATHS OF ALL THESE PEOPLE
THAT SAY "OH , YES I DO BELIEVE IN GOD, YES I DO HAVE FAITH". IT IS
THIS FUCKKKEEENNN STUPIDITY, THAT MAKES JEWS, AND MUSLIM FANATICS
HATED. CHRISTIANS TOO. IF YOU DON'T USE YOUR BRAINS THEN YOU MIGHT AS
WELL BE DEAD. SOUNDS HARSH, BUT TRUE.

Posted by john @ 08/02/2006 09:31 PM CST

I had no idea how to respond to these comments, especially John's, until a conversation with my uncle this evening. I am a, generally, liberal American jew. The death of Lebanese children pains me as much as the death of Israeli civilians. I was glad when Israel's response showed restraint -- warning civilians to leave targeted areas -- and horrified when their bombs seemed to target civilians, such as the bombing of a convoy of refugees.

We all know, I believe, that whatever destruction Israel has caused in Lebanon over these past few weeks, it is at least a tenth or even a hundredth of the destruction it is capable of causing. And yet Israel and jews are still hated for their unbalanced response. What can we do to stop this hatred? If Israel killed exactly the same amount of Lebanese people that Hezbollah killed, would Mohammad's opinion change? Would John feel any differently about Jews? If Isreal released 30 Lebanese prisoners for the release of one captured Israeli soldier, Hezbollah be satisfied? Or would they say, now release the rest, and give back the Golan Heights, and then the Sheba Farms, and then the West Bank, and then East Jerusalem, and West Jerusalem. John said it best when he said that he wants Israel to revert to it's 1947 borders.

So, Hezbollah hates Israel no matter what she does. They hate the jews no matter what we do. What can we do? There is, sadly, only one answer. When Israel is attacked she should hit back, without restraint and with all the destuctive force she can muster. Consider one Israeli casualty too many. And thousand's of enemy casualties insignificant. They hate us anyway. They want to destroy us anyway.

The French might call Israel bullies; the British may say stop the bloodshed; the U.S. may call for restraint. Yet how did these countries act during World War II? They firebombed Dresden and obliterated Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Many people look back at these actions in horror as excessively violent, but ask those people, when faced with an enemy with a knife, if they would rather have a gun or a knife? Some will say that the German's were going to be defeated anyway when Dresden was bombed, and the U.S. could have defeated Japan without using the bomb. It might have been harder, and taken longer, but they could have done it. Ok, back to the knife analogy: you could, almost certainly, defeat the assailant using only a knife, but would suffer serious wounds -- do you now choose the knife, or the gun? Answer honestly.

So, would Mohammed or John hate Israel less if one Israeli died for every ten Lebanese? How about if ten Israeli's died for every one Lebanese -- they may scream less, but would certainly cheer more, and where would Israel be left? The only answer is to wreak such destuction on Lebanon and Hezbollah that it would take them decades to recover the capacity to kill an Israeli. Rain such massive amounts of death on them they will be too terrified to let Syria and Iran use them as proxies for their war. The UN will still debate, the arab street will still protest, and they will hate us, but at least Israeli citizens will be spared death.

Posted by Bill Gross @ 08/14/2006 05:41 AM CST

Hi there Bill,

I have to say that I don't agree with your point of view. Because the fact that one won't change his point of view (Hate, hatred or whatsoever) towards you doesn't give you a green light to spread destruction and killing among innocent people under the excuse of self defense or because the other side hates you.
In fact, I do believe that the international hate the jews suffer is caused by such thinking. People don't hate you don't matter what you do. They hate you BECAUSE of what you do.
Personally, I don't hate the jews, nor any race. But I do condemn the state of israel because of its actions and I do condemn the orthodox people who call for the displacement and death to all the arabs, and they do exist whitin israel the same way that there are extremists(Hizbollah) inside lebanon and Palestine.
The fact that there were attrocities committed during the second world war doesn't give israel the right to do the same thing to palestenian and lebanese refugees. And the fact that it could do much more damage doesn't mean that it's ok or that it's acting with restraint. Jews suffering and genocide during WW II doesn't mean that they have a green light to committ state terror againt pple who have nothing to do with it. Because israel is performing all the attrocities committed by nazis on the palestenians for years... there is no concentrating camps and no gas indeed, but aside this, palestenians live in guetos, their leaders are not allowed to work, they are arrested arbitrary, they don't have rights, they are discrimated, subjugated, hated, they don't have freedom, they have their houses confiscated and demolished and they live suffocated in every aspect of life. ISRAEL IS A STATE AND PALESTINE ISN'T. Israel controls every aspect of the palestenian life. It is responsible of what happens to these pple as they were expelled from their homes to form the state of israel, so it should HELP these people have a better life, not punish them collectively because of the actions of one among them.
Likud and Hamas are equivalent parties to me. The only difference between them is that Hamas uses suicide bombers because the don't have more sofisticated weapons, while the israeli right uses sofisticated airplanes, guided bombs and ultra-modern tanks to spread terror. Both kill civilians and innocents under the wing of "we are defending ourselves".

Posted by Felipe @ 08/14/2006 07:59 PM CST

Felipe, I'm not saying it's right that Israel bombs Lebanon. Issues of life and death transcend right and wrong. It's about having and exercising enough power so that your enemies will be afraid to attack. It's about having enough power to be able to live in peace. Why did Egypt and Israel negotiate a peace treaty? Because it was the right thing to do? No, Egypt realized that Israel was too strong for them to defeat. Israel realized that peace with Egypt was worth more than all the oil in Sinai. On the same token, why have peace talks with Syria failed when Israel was willing to give back the Golan Heights (http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm)?

Israel left Gaza last year, forcibly removing its citizens. Why? Because it had become more difficult to occupy the territory than to retreat. Israel's enemies see that as weakness, so they attack. It is now up to Israel to prove its strength, to make the equation so unbalanced that the only option its enemies have is to accept what they have and stop fighting.

I'm not saying it's right, just that it's the only option. It's the way the world works.

Posted by Bill Gross @ 08/14/2006 09:57 PM CST

Bill, This perspective won't ever work. There are several ways to prove that one is infinitly stronger and conquer respect. Egypt and Israel achieved a peace treaty because Egypt is an INDEPENDENT STATE. Palestine isn't, and it's authorities are continuosly weaken and threaten by the israelis, they don't have autonomy neither resources, and can't develop either one due to the israeli permanent economical, political and physical siege. What i'm saying is that Israel should work to make or simply allow the palestenians to have a better life, instead of trying to spread fear by arbitrary killings of innocents.
It's unfair to blame the innocent people in gaza, or to make them pay the price. Israel withdrew from gaza indeed, but it still controls its borders, economy and still dictates what pple can do or not. What it left was a vaccumm and a mess, and the extremists took advantage of this situation. Israel is responsible because it is in control. The innocent suffer the consequences.
These actions help spread the impression that ONLY israeli lives matter.
What I'm saying is that israel SHOULD cooperate with those poor pple and give them, if not support, CONDITIONS to have a better life. Then people whould start to respect israel and support it. That's what this article is about, it's about seeing the other one's point of view.
I understand that israel has to defend itself, the thing is it's doing it the wrong way, and harming everyone around it in a careless and irresponsible manner. and the thing is that defend yourself doesn't give you the right to kill innocents.
You can't seek protection or authority imposal through violence, collective punishment and FEAR. Fear won't work with who doesn't have anything to lose and who doesn't have any perspective for a better future.
You said that "exercising enough power so that your enemies will be afraid to attack" This won't make the extremists afraid, and will make the HATE feeling you mentioned in your first post grow, this corroborates what I said about pple hating you BECAUSE of what you do. What you do is what matters.
I would change your phrase to this: If israel uses justice and shows that it cares about the innocent lives and respects the palestenians and the lebanese, it's 'enemies' Will NOT WANT to attack. and if some radical (they exist all over the world and inside all nationalities, remember Rabin´s assassination) still does so, only THEN the palestenians can contain those extremists, and even work side by side with the israelis to stop the radicals, and be responsible for the radical´s actions, because they would be able to deal with it, while for now they simply don´t have conditions to do so.

Posted by Felipe @ 08/14/2006 10:47 PM CST

Bill,

Let us put aside the middle east problem problem and just focus on WHY YOU ARE A JEW???? If you want to intellecually discuss anything that is related to the morality of Isreali actions or the morality and actions of the arabs, then let us first discuss why you are a Jew??? Please when you reply to this, do not tell me FAITH, BECAUSE A MUSLIM HAS FAITH, A CHRISTIAN HAS FAITH. feel free to define faith then if you would like. But if you are intellectually honest then please tell me how you became jewish, and how someone else can become jewish??? I await.

Posted by john @ 09/09/2006 04:31 PM CST

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