Divestment and Bolshevism

08/14/2005

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by Moderator @ 08:59 PM CST [Link]

Replies: 5 comments

There exists a fundamental difference between what Mr. Pappe & others are seeking, and the anti-apartheid movement re: S. Africa. In the S. Africa there was never any suggestion that the S. African state should cease to exist. However the "Single Staters" (SS'rs)seek in the first instance to end the existance of the state of Israel. Whilst they may not exclaim it they are proposing economic war against Israel and the Israelis, as a response to the failure of the "Arab" military war. It is interesting that none of the SS'rs seem to spend much effort in consdering just how the merger of the two politically, economically, socially, technologically, and legally disparate communities shall be merged into a coherent whole. It would probably result in civil war.
I suspect that for a large part much of the SS'rs activity is little more than intellectual / romantic posturing which the proponents know (and are grateful for) has no chance of occurring.
As has been seen in the last 10 years, loss of access to Israeli markets has resulted in poverty for the Palestinians. Destroying the Israeli economy will only only serve to reinforce that poverty and in all probability encourage Palestinians to seek better lives elsewhere, especially as Iraq settles down and employment opportunities improve. Disinvestment were it to be successful may in fact prove to be the best weapon that the Greater Israel bloc requires to take over all the land between the sea and the river.

Posted by Rod Davies @ 08/16/2005 10:18 AM CST

Rod you are fundamentally mistaken here. The central demand of the ANC and AAM was precisely that the South African apartheid state should cease to exist. The apartheid state was based on the white 20% of the South African population, and the intention was gradually to exclude blacks from any citizenship at all via the bantustan policy. The new South African state is based on universal suffrage. It has a new constitution. While there are continuities between old & new, there has also been a decisive break.

The one-staters as I understand it (or at least one strand) argue that Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza strip are effectively ruled by Israel so should be able to elect representatives to the Knesset on the same basis as existing Israeli citizens. That may or may not be a practical proposition, for a variety of reasons, but it is not so far from the ANC position as you suggest.

Jewish State as analogous to Afrikaaner State - discuss....

The same arguments against economic boycotts were also used in the South African contect, of course.

Posted by Chris Bright @ 08/30/2005 04:11 PM CST

"What Pappe describes above, is, of course, a classic Bolshevik tactic. Hey, don't knock it! If it was good enough for V.I. Lenin, it is good enough for Pappe."

Sorry? When did Lenin and the Bolsheviks ever advocate disinvestment? I must have missed something. Examples please...

Posted by Chris Bright @ 08/30/2005 04:15 PM CST

This is a ridiculous article. My understanding is that Bolshevism refers to the strategy of Soviet Communists of gaining power after the Russian Revolution of 1917. What does it have to do with divestment?

Posted by Peter F @ 09/02/2005 09:50 PM CST

Chris,
The primary difference is that Israel is the military occupier of the West Bank, and formerly Gaza. Under international law it cannot extend citizenship to the inhabitants of the West Bank, for to do so it would mean that the Occupied Territories had become an integral part of Israel. The test of the comparability between Israel and the apartheid South Africa can only be between the internationally recognised Israel and the former South Africa. Comparing constitutions it is clearly evident that Israel is a democracy that affords equality with the exception of the right of return (this however does not differ from laws within other states incl. UK that facilitate the "return" of distinct ethnic groups) On primary representations of the state such as coinage & bank notes, road signs, etc. it is evident that Arabic is afforded status, and that it is not exclusively Hebrew. Compare this with South Africa where the native languages had no legal status whatsoever.
The single staters also want the internationally accepted boundaries of Israel to be eradicated, for a state to be created out of the truncated Palestinian Mandate territories. If the single staters were to logically extend their argument they should also call for the eradication of Jordan and its integration into a a "Greater Palestinian" state. In respect of Jordan it needs to be borne in mind that the Hashemites are even more "immigrant" than the Zionist Jews, as are the Circassians who live in Jordan. If the criteria of recent migrant, or descendant thereof, were to be applied evenly then many Palestinians would find themselves identified as outsiders with little or no claim.
In essence Israel was created out of a civil war between two communities that would not or could not agree to live together in peace. If the envelope of history is extended back into the 18th century then the Palestinian demands / claims become much less secure. We would all do well to start applying consistent criteria to both sides and take an objective stance toward the current situation. If we do not then we find ourselves being used as pawns in a power struggle.

Posted by Rod Davies @ 09/05/2005 12:18 PM CST

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