Taba Attacks: Tragedy for Peace

10/10/2004

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by Moderator @ 09:30 PM CST [Link]

Replies: 11 comments

Of course the UN's definition of terrorism clearly applies equally to Israel's actions in Gaza.

Posted by Chris @ 10/11/2004 02:59 PM CST

I always found it an interesting but disturbing characteristic that the supporters of terrorists find it possible to ignore the less pleasant truths about the groups they support. Years ago I used to get angry when USA'ns claiming allegiance to the notion of a unified Ireland were quite willing to ignore the fact that crime primarily funded the IRA and the principal victims of the IRA were the very Catholics that the IRA claimed to support and protect.
There is a difference between Israels violence against the Palestinians and that of Hamas against Israel. In the IDF there is a defined chain of command where culpability can be identified, by which the IDF is held accountable to the democratically elected government and by which the IDF can be stopped. No such structure exists for Hamas or the other terrorist organisations operating there.
A clear example being in N Ireland when the IRA declared a ceasefire as Sinn Fein started negotiations. Whilst the British Army could disengage in an oderly manner, the IRA split into various factions with some not accepting the ceasefire or the possibility of any settlement that might be acceptable to the Protestants. That lack of control has brought autonomy in NI to an end and currently the parliament there and talks are suspended.

Posted by Rod Davies @ 10/11/2004 10:02 PM CST

Message to BULLDOG, instead of foaming from the mouth, read the history. These terrorists are not wanting to immigrate to your country (wherever you might live)and become a productive and honorable citizen. They are fighting to regain what they
think is theirs. They conquered a big chunk of real estate back about six-7 hundred years ago and were "kicked out", by the rightful
citizens several years later.
They come and form sleeper cells, work, eat, get educated, run for public office and even marry your daughters, until the day they are called to destroy you.
They will not change, due to poison that has been fed into their minds since they were little babies.
WAKE UP! You and those allies we saved during WWI and WWII; we gave them their freedom and democracy.
Terrorism is a hydraheaded enemy!
SOON THEY WILL BE IN FRONT YARD.

Posted by Don Pepe @ 10/12/2004 08:00 PM CST

United Nations, HAH! a group of thugs. What have they done (other than fill not only their pockets but huge vaults). They allow killers to perform genocide in country after country, pledging support, financing and humanity/medical aide. After they have discussed it for years and all the affected are long dead and forgotten, they vote to investigate serious abuses.

Posted by Don Pepe @ 10/12/2004 08:09 PM CST

Jihad for Kids and Hatred Now are two poignant videos showing that the Palestinians are not working for peace. These are "must see" videos, which will help you understand why most Israelis don't see Arafat and his cronies as partners for peace. Other poignant videos are produced by the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

SEGMENT OF ANOTHER SECTION IN THIS BLOG-READ IT.

Posted by Don Pepe @ 10/12/2004 08:43 PM CST

Hello! can you read and smell
the stench coming from these
terrorists?

Posted by Don Pepe @ 10/12/2004 08:47 PM CST

Both Don Pepe & Bulldog inadvertently provide an interesting commentary from the US & European perspectives. Yet both omit to mention their own nation's culpability in the mess that is the Middle East. The continual war in the Middle East has created and maintained employment in the western arms industries. Both US & Europe have actively conspired to ensure that the oppressive dictatorships that abound in the region survive.

Don Pepe is deluding himself if he thinks that the US gave Europe democracy via WW1 & WW2. The USA lent billions to the UK to enable it to fight the war. UK repaid the WW1 debts in 1968 and the WW2 debts in the mid '80's. Had the UK not continued the fight in WW2 it is highly questionable whether there would be any democracy in Europe as the US turned up late in both wars. The US also used the debt to dismantle the British Empire and to ensure that its own industry took over their markets. Whilst the US today takes a very strong line against terrorism, for years it allowed the IRA to fund-raise despite the fact that the IRA were killing the citizens of its closest ally. The US also enjoys the benefits of a corrupt and violent middle east. If the middle east were to develop rapidly into a coherent bloc of peaceful democracies, it is highly likely that the US would lose its dominant status in the world.
If one looks at the post WW2 era, it is notable that the US has frequently supported right-wing dictatorships in opposition to democratically elected left-wing governments. US paranoia about the spread of communism was the driver not some set of democratic values. Such was US paranoia that it was prepared to infiltrate and spy upon UK organisations - its closest ally in NATO. (Compare this with US outrage at alleged Israeli spying in US!)

Bulldog is also profoundly mistaken - the religious inheritance of the Middle East informs the very fabric of UK law and values. The Old Testament was the reference point for the social progression in UK from the 17th Century onwards. If some state were to "nuke" the middle east it would send Europe back into the middle ages without the means to power its industrial and commercial base.

Posted by Rod Davies @ 10/12/2004 09:48 PM CST

Regrettably, many of the comments on this article are horrifying. At least one will be removed because it advocates genocide.

Don Pepe writes:
"Jihad for Kids...SEGMENT OF ANOTHER SECTION IN THIS BLOG-READ IT."

I do not remember and could not find any such phrase in any materials at MidEastWeb, though it might appear in someone's comment. The phrase is not found by the site search or the log search.

Ami Isseroff

Posted by Ami Isseroff @ 10/13/2004 01:44 PM CST

Thanks a lot Chris you speak for my tongue....
Ami Israel should revise it's history and it's relationships with the both europe and it's nerighbors very soon, or else no one knows where this region is going to end up with

Posted by Ima @ 10/13/2004 06:44 PM CST

Ima's comment that Israel should revise its history is interesting and perhaps it would be better if we all "revised" our histories. The current conflict is repeatedly presented to us within a relatively narrow envelope from about 1890 to the present day. From that perspective we are asked to agree with a limited number of interpretations. If the envelope of acknowledged regional history, and its lateral scope, is expanded the range of interpretations changes, and many of the apparent current certainties lose their credibility.
It is very striking for instance that the "left-wing" in both Europe and US afford the Arab / Muslim political constituency a degree of credibility in relation to the historic treatment of Jews, Christians and other minority religions that it would not afford the dominant white political consituency in the Southern States in relation to the treatment of Afro-Americans. This stance fails to subject the dominant Muslim community to the same degree of objectivity in relation to its claims, and thereby encourages the Muslim world to develop false history as part of its communal / national mythologies. This fosters within the Muslim world an unwillingness to examine their own histories on a factual basis and learn from them. Thus they find themselves in situations where they fail to progress from their failed strategies. Equally this failure prevents inter-communal engagement to the point where peace can be established. This site some years ago tried to start a grassroots initiative between Israelis & Palestinians where atrocities were admitted to, in an incremental progression. Sadly only the Israelis owned up to the first of their atrocities - Deir Yassin. The Palestinians failed to reciprocate, and from my recollection it descended into an appalling anti-Israel and racist / sectarian diatribe.
If we were to compare Israeli actions with those of the Allies in WW2, it is far from certain that the Allies would appear favourably. Consider that the Allies took a positive decision to blanket bomb areas with high density of civilian habitation on the basis that it would break the Germans will to continue to fight. Israel has yet to attempt this in any of its war, even though it had the capacity to cause enormous damage. Had the Israelis sought to copy the Allies, it perhaps would have destroyed the Aswan Dam and ended Egypts capacity to prosecute war. Also that action would have killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of Egyptians.
If we are to judge Israel on historical terms then we have to be objective, and not to allow our prejudices to influence the interpretation.

Posted by Rod Davies @ 10/14/2004 02:57 PM CST

Fify nine years of war, hatred, killing in Palestine.

Next 59 years?

What a wonderful world for our kids and grandkids to look forward to living in!

Posted by Jerry @ 10/17/2004 02:12 PM CST

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