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Fact and Fiction about the Israeli Wall/Fence/Barrier in Jerusalem

04/12/2004

Like almost everything in the Middle East, the Wall/Fence/Barrier under construction by Israel has become the subject of partisan politics. The truth is inconvenient for most political puproses, because too often it favors nobody and makes everyone look bad. Thus,the raw material truth product must be reworked and reshaped by experts until it suits the purpose of those marketing it as "truth." Consequently it is impossible to determine the truth except from first hand accounts, and as these are inconvenient, they are not believed.

Here is an actual first person account of the construction of the Israeli fence/wall/barrier in Abu Dis. The reporter chooses to remain anonymous:



Yesterday I visited the Abu-Dis wall. When we turn to enter Abu-Dis inwhat used to be the main road via the town toward Jericho and the Dead Sea, we came face to face with the 9-meter tall monster. But wait, this is not going to be the usual story about the wall - if you are willing to walk up the hill with me you will hear a story different from all others. This is a promise.

Abu-Dis wall is the most photographed segment of the wall. A 2-meter provisional wall was established across the main road in the town almost a year ago. Since the place is so close to Jerusalem it had two distinct advantages for the media:

1. Thousands of Palestinians crossed the 2-meter wall every day on their way to work, school and other business in Jerusalem,

2. A photographer or reporter does not have to travel far from the comfort of his Jerusalem office, take a few photos (the cross wall traffic there was constant, within a 5 minutes wait one would see a baby being transported across the wall and the photographer can be back to Jerusalem within half an hour after the daily Abu-Dis photo.

Since this is a wall and not a fence, it fit the anti-wall media campaign. Every foreigner interested in "the wall" was taken to Abu Dis by various organizations. In each of my Abu Dis visits there were many professional photographers, students and activists taking photos of Palestinians crossing the monster. (see here.

At the end of January 2004 it all changed. Israel started replacing the 2-meter wall with 9-meter concrete slabs that were supposed to be the REAL wall. No one can cross here any more. The reports were that the construction crew is working day and night, photos of night time construction filled the news wires. The buzz was that Israel want to finish the wall before the ICJ Hague hearing on February. The area was again the center of anti-wall demonstrations and this time the "wall photos" coming from Abu Dis were different: A woman with a 9 meter wall in her front yard, a nun with a 9 meter wall at the entrance to her monastery, a Palestinian riding his horse that seemed dwarfed by the 9 meter monster, a monster covered with graffiti comparing whatIsrael does to the Palestinians to what the Nazis did to the Jews -See some of this graffiti here, here, and here.


The fate of Abu Dis seemed sealed or was it ?

I was there yesterday and this time walked along the wall, wondering what will I find. It is a steep climb up the hill. No reporters I know have done that. Why bother climbing when the story is there available on the main road? After 5-10 minutes walk I arrived at what I can only describe as "the end of the wall", there is a gap in which a small stone is placed and yet again everyone can climb and cross there.
Another 5 minutes to the other side of the hill and it is completely open space, no wall in sight (except a small stretch of 100 meters built on top of a far away hill in the horizon)

This is it. All the rush of pre-Hague construction has finished, there are no construction boldozers in sight.

The famous Abu-Dis wall (mentioned tens of thousands of times in news articles, photos and on the Internet) is ONLY less than one kilometer in length!

A new "wall by-pass road" is already in use by the Palestinians residents of Abu Dis and while this is somewhat non-convinet (a 10 minute detour by car, 15 minutes by foot) it is hardly a story that if would occur elsewhere in the world anyone would bother reporting about.

Will this stop suicide bombers ?

Decide for your self.

Will this cause the town of Abu-Dis a slow death and cause her residents to move away ("the wall is a slow transfer" says the graffiti on the wall)

Decide this for yourself.

That is all he wrote in this letter. However, this same correspondent has pointed out the ubiquitousness nature of half-truths about the fence/wall/ that have been perpetrated by media and by activists on both sides. For example, from Al-Jazeera :


"In recent weeks, Israeli bulldozers have finished their work at the Palestinian village of Abu Dis, on the outskirts of Jerusalem, and moved to.."


They finished their work, but the wall is not finished.

And from Gadi ElGazi from Taayush:



"Jerusalem, where the barricade around Abu Dis has been replaced by a 9-meter-high wall which cuts off the 250,000 Palestinians within the municipality of Jerusalem from the 600,000 Palestinians living nearby."


But Ta'ayush knows it is not true. The wall/fence/barrier doesn't cut off the Palestinians, because they simply go around it. The wall is not complete. What it means is not clear. Will Israel finish the barrier? What is the point of having a fence for a brief distance. Does someone think the suicide bombers are too lazy to travel 10 minutes out of their way? Whatever the case may be, the truth is different from what you have been reading in the media.

For those who are interested in collecting "talking points" to bolster their propaganda positions, this must be very confusing. We are not saying that the Palestinians are evil and that the Israelis are good or the other way around. If what we say is untrue, then show us where the wall is being built that seals off Abu Dis, and I will gladly publish your report here. But anyone can go to Jerusalem and verify the truth. We do not pretend to know the significance of the truth, except that it is the truth. For crazy people like us, that is important in itself. If that doesn't suit you, it is not our problem. If you insist on being deceived, then go on reading the media and believing them.

Ami Isseroff


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Original text copyright by the author and MidEastWeb for Coexistence, RA. Posted at MidEastWeb Middle East Web Log at http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000242.htm where your intelligent and constructive comments are welcome. Distributed by MEW Newslist. Subscribe by e-mail to mew-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. Please forward by email with this notice and link to and cite this article. Other uses by permission.

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Replies: 18 comments

Can some one please explain where the apartments built by Dr. Moskowitz are in relationship to this wall?

Haim Dov Beliak

Posted by Haim Dov Beliak @ 04/12/2004 07:57 PM CST

The Moskovitz building is a 5 minutes drive west of Abu Dis (toward the old city and Mt of olives)- - thus it is on the WEST side of the wall.

The building is bordering on one side by Palestinian buildings, on the other by a Syrian church monastery build on 1902 and on the street side it is facing a Palestinian street - where on the other side of the street is a police station and Magav (border police) base.

Over all the Moskovitz mini-settlement is an island of settlers in the middle of what is otherwise a Palestinian area.

Posted by reporter @ 04/13/2004 07:45 AM CST

The wall/fence/barrier that surrounds and suffocates the Palestinian cities, town, and villages is real and NOT propaganda as Mr. Isseroff likes to point out. I suggest that Mr. Isseroff actually go and see for him self what the wall is doing to the Palestinian people. Palestine is being turned into ghettos. In fact, the village of my birth in Beit Hanina will soon be swallowed up by the apartheid wall. To claim that this wall does not exist/or does not severely harm/strangulate the Palestinian people is purely a case of criminal denial. The reason that the wall in Abu Dis is not quite finished is because it is still in the Israeli courts regarding which side of the Cliff Hotel the wall will pass through. The only way to go from Abu Dis west to Abu Dis East is to either sneak through the opening that remains by the Cliff Hotel pending resolution of the court case or to drive all the way around the Mt. of Olives to the Mt. Scopus settler by-pass road to Maalie Adumim and enter Abu Dis from the East. I know that you would prefer to paint the wall and its inhumanity as being rather benign, but then again, you do not live there or have to live with the wall and its consequences.

Frustration…Helplessness… Resentment… Anger… These are but a few of the feelings and emotions that are coursing through my mind and body at this time.

Those who are familiar with me and what I write know that the village of my birth, Beit Hanina, holds a very special and dear place in my heart. I have written much in the past about my childhood in my beloved village in Palestine. Not a day has gone boy in the last 35 years since I left Beit Hanina at the age of 8, which I had not thought about my homeland. The memories, images, tastes, and smells that I have come to associate with growing up as a child of fellaheen (farmers) still resonate deep inside me, stirring and bubbling, ready to take me back to a simpler time and place that will forever be etched in my mind.

Although it has been very difficult for me to be away from my beloved homeland, I had always taken comfort in the fact that even though much of my family’s land was stolen by the Israelis for the building of Jewish settlements, we still had quite a bit of land left in Beit Hanina. My ancestral home, which was built by my great grandfather, where my grandfather, my father, and I were born, still stood. Also our orchards, which produced some of the finest apricots, plums, figs, and olives in the world, were still intact and in our family. These were the very same orchards that were planted and cared for by my ancestors and passed straight down to us.

Last year I took my children home to Palestine with me so that they may get to know their roots and the connection to the land and the very same trees that were planted and tended to by their ancestors. My children, who were all born in the US, were in awe as I took them on a tour of their lands and home. I cannot describe the feeling of sitting down under one of our ancient olive trees, which had been planted by one of their forefathers hundreds of years before, eating, talking, reflecting, and connecting with our land, trees, and our history.

Today, I received word that the Israeli Army of Occupation had served notices to the people of lower Beit Hanina, informing 185 land owners that the Israeli government will be confiscating 1,100 Dunums (1 dunum = 1,000 square meters) of land for the Apartheid Wall. This means that the Israelis will be erecting the wall to surround and imprison the residents of Beit Hanina, while at the same time; it will separate them from their prized agricultural lands, fields, and trees. The people of Lower Bait Hanina will be caged, surrounded on all sides. Beit Hanina, which has a long and rich history, will be turned into nothing more than an impoverished ghetto, complete with a locked gate.

My brother was choking up as he told me of the impending disaster. I then had the unenviable task of breaking the news to my father. People on the ground in Beit Hanina were walking around in shock and disbelief. Just as the Wall was used as an excuse for stealing the most prized lands in other Palestinian villages, it was also being used to steal our beloved village.

The wall will be as close as 10 meters to some houses in the village and will snake in and out, gobbling up the most precious and valuable tracts of land. The hills of Beit Hanina, which were my playground as a youth and where my mother’s family has homes and land, will no longer be accessible to the people of Beit Hanina. The hills, in which I flew kites, hunted birds, and pheasants with my ever present slingshot, will no longer be available to the youth of Beit Hanina. Even the caves that we sought shelter in during the 1967 war, as we fled from our homes in advance of the Israeli army will be off limits.

Last summer I took my children on a tour of Beit Hanina and its surroundings, tracing my very footsteps as a child, right down to the cave we hid in, the trees I climbed, and the hills that were my playground. At that time, I could barely keep my eyes dry as I watched my children soak in the history and pleasure of being on their OWN land. I don’t really know what made me happier, being home, or watching my children discovering their roots. At that time, I did not know that this might be the last time that I would be able to visit Beit Hanina as I had remembered and knew it.

Now it seems that in order for Israel to build it Wall of Hate, the people of Beit Hanina will now share the fate of their neighboring villages whose lands were also stolen and ravaged so that the Wall of Hate could be built. Beit Hanina will become like the villages that surround it, nothing more than a walled ghetto, stripped of its most valuable assets, its land and orchards. Land which has been in our families for hundreds of years will now be off limits to us separated by Walls…

Israel is not only building walls on the ground to imprison, torture, and steal Palestinian lands. They are also succeeding in building walls around people’s hearts which in the end, will be much harder to tear down than the concrete and steel Wall of Shame, Prejudice, and outright Larceny…

Shame on those that stand silently by…

Frustration, Hopelessness, and MUCH anger…

Mike Odetalla, on the day the thieves came to Beit Hanina…3-09-04

Posted by Mike Odetalla @ 04/13/2004 08:15 AM CST

i've learned through bitter experience NEVER to believe the hysterical ravings of anti-wall protestors. israel has become the ultimate demonizable Other that Arab & Palestinian populations desperately need in order to excuse their own civilizational failure. the longer the islamofascist world perpetrates this nazi propaganda campaign, the less likely it becomes that Moslems will ever grow up & accept the reality of their political, economic, social, philosophic & cognitive failure. yet this is too distressing, far easier just to project it all on the convenient all-purpose Satan, Israel. the islamofascist movement & all the contemptible squealing-pig terrorist swarms it nurtures belong in the dustbin of history along with marxism & fascism.

the wall may indeed be a tactical move by sharon, a necessary diversion. in any event, the leftist western media & the islamofascists have fallen into the propaganda trap. little surprise there. never underestimate the obtuseness factor when dealing with islam or its apologists in the monolithically liberal western media.

the wall is a potemkin wall, deliberately!

chao

steve carter

Posted by stephen carter @ 04/13/2004 09:14 AM CST

Dear Mike,

Your description of the “awe feelings felt by your children (born in the US) while they were sitting down under ancient olive trees, which had been planted by one of their forefathers hundreds of years before” is really moving and touched my heart. Such feelings are the essence of Zionism – the longing of people who were born in the Diaspora to come back to the land once inhabited by their ancestors. This is one of the best descriptions of pure Zionism I have read in long time.

I hope that one day, your children can sit under their olive trees together with Jewish kids – who’s ancestors share the same land many many years before your people arrived in the country – and together all the children of Abraham can live in peace and there will be not need for walls to prevent the horrible acts of the terrorists.

Posted by Peter Jaacobi @ 04/13/2004 01:25 PM CST

Facts

The opening of the wall near the cliff hotel is only 400 meters from the main road – no news organization has bother reporting it.

On the other side of the cliff hotel there is open space and yet the wall stretches for another 100 meters or so and this is it. Beyond that point there is no wall at all.

You can use all the words such as “suffocates, surrounds etc…" but the reality TODAY in Abu-dis is that only 700 meters from the main road into Abu-Dis (where all the famous Abu-Dis wall photos are taken) there is already a by-pass road used by Palestinian cars (the pedestrians use the opening near the cliff hotel which is even closer to the main road)

It is really frustrating to hear an owner of so many acres of land in Beit-Hanina (a reach suburb) complain about how bad the situation is – Surly, your family in Beit Hanina own a car and does not need to travel on buses like poor kids in Jerusalem. These kids may get blown up on their way to school and the wall is being built to stop that. It is indeed in the wrong route but let me ask you – what route would you select to put the wall against the terrorists? are you against the route of the wall or against Israel right to defend her People from being targeted by Palestinian Terrorists ?

Posted by Human Rights Observer @ 04/13/2004 01:37 PM CST

I found one of the maps shown on one of the pages referred to rather interesting. If one looks at , one finds the area just east of Jerusalem referred to as "West-jordanland."

Posted by Alan Stein @ 04/13/2004 09:04 PM CST

Mr. Isseroff,

I just read your "Fact and Fiction" posting about the separation wall in Abu Dis. As an outside observer (from the U.S.) who has had the opportunity to visit the West Bank only once (so far), in May of last year, I have to rely on other sources for information. And no, I do not get my information from the mainstream media here in the US or elsewhere. Anyone who follows this issue here knows that the media here is notoriously biased towards the Israeli position. I rely on sources for information like this blog, people who live in the area who are affected by the wall, and organizations like PENGON. You may feel that some of these sources are unreliable and that I am being deceived. If this is really the case then these sources are either lying or they are delusional. After reading Mike Odetella's posting, I just have to ask you which parts of his reply you think are false? Your accounts are so opposing that one of you must be wrong.

Posted by Steven Beikirch @ 04/14/2004 07:56 AM CST

Mr. Beikirch,

The report is about the wall in Abu-Dis. Is there a single fact in this report (about Abu-Dis) which you know is false ? If so why don’t you provide it ?

The fact is that only a small strech of about 700-800 meters of the wall is built in Abu-Dis. Have you (when you visited the area) or any of the news reporters and photographers covering the issue ever bothered taking the 10 minutes walk up the hill (east toward the Cliff hotel) . If you would do that you will see that beyond the hotel (where the opening used by pedestrians is) there is another 100 meter stretch of wall and beyond that IT IS ALL OPEN – all the way to hill on top of Swahrai (3 K”m to the south). On that hill there is another 100 meter built and below that there is no wall.

So Mr. Beikirch, this are the facts on the ground true to April 10, 2004. All the photos you have seen (see the Der Stern article in one of the links in the original report) were taken near the main road into Abu Dis. Any reporter who would bother climbing up the hill would find an uninteresting story because there is no wall there.

I do not want to claim that there are no problems with the over all fence route. There are and I hope they will fixed but as for Pengon reports – why don’t you look at the map they provide and try to match it to the reality on the ground:

The reality: From Jalbun north east of Jenin to Zbuba North west of Jenin the path of the fence (you know it is a fence don’t you) is EXACTLY on the green-line border – Do you think Israel has a right to build a fence on that border to prevent suicide bombers to explode in her cities and towns ?

Pengon: They claim Israel confiscated lands in Jenin and that the path of the fence is creating an enclave around Rumana and Anin but this is just not true – no such secondary fence inside the west bank land as falsely claimed by pengon.

The reality: The fence on the green line in that area aloud the IDF to remove all road blocks around Jenin and focus (for the MOST part) on defending Israeli citizens by patrolling the fence on the green-line border.

Pengon Map: An eastern fence which surrounds the entire west bank from the east.
The reality: There is no such fence and no such decision was ever taken by the Israeli government.

We can move further south, from Zbuba to Anin the fence is on the green line and indeed part of the fence after Anin is inside the west bank and taking some parts of the olive groves of Anin.

Further south Israel moved the fence from being around Baka El Sharkia to the green line but Pengon show AS IF there is a double fence surrounds Baka from both sides – but this is just not true as the fence was there was dismantled over 8 K”m once the portion on the green-line was completed.

I think we had enough. No doubt there are problems with the route in some places but the claims that by this fence what Israel does to the Palestinians are what Hitler did to the Jews are pure anti-Semitism. Do you Mr. Beikirch willing to say that as much of Palestinians has a right to a free independent state the Jewish people have a right to a free state? That in this Jewish people state –Israel – the jews have a right to defend them self from suicide bombers? Or do you think that ANY fence is a bad idea because you think the Jewish people just do not have the right to have a border since they have no right to have their own country. – please, tell us what you REALLY think.

Posted by Facts Vs. Propeganda @ 04/14/2004 09:45 AM CST

Mr Odetalla claimed very little about the present and mostly writes about the future and his own emotions.

I trust that his description of his own emotions is true. I have no way to know the future but I can look at the one claim Mr. Odetalla makes:

“The only way to go from Abu Dis west to Abu Dis East is to either sneak through the opening that remains by the Cliff Hotel pending resolution of the court case or to drive all the way around the Mt. of Olives to the Mt. Scopus settler by-pass road to Maalie Adumim and enter Abu Dis from the East.”

First, if this is a “settler-road” as Mr. Odatella claims than how come Palestinians can drive on it ? so this road is not as he claim (by using the name settler road) a settlers only road but in fact he is referring to the main road into the Arab towns of Az-Ziam and Al-Azarie.

Second, Mr. Odetalla ignore the wall by-pass road that is already in use by the Palestinians on the eastern part of the hill just behind the cliff hotel.

Third, I have not seen in Mr, Odetalla descriptions any word about preventing buses from exploding in Jerusalem and how to prevent the death of Jerusalem school children - is this an important human rights issue ?

The reality on the ground is that as the wall built now (700 meters and then nothing for 3 K"m) this wall will neither stop suicide bombers nor will cause more than minor in convince to the people of Abu Dis – What do you think ?

Posted by reporter @ 04/14/2004 10:13 AM CST

Why argue ?

Take a look at this photo taken with a very long zoom lens from Mt of Olives:

http://www.iwps-pal.org/ftpiwps/web/quds/THE%20WALL%20FROM%20THE%20MOUNT%20OF%20OLIVES%20reduced.jpg

The photo was taken from a distance of about 2 K'm and you can see everything:

The 700 Meter of wall, the opening near the cliff hotel, the small stretch of wall after the cliff hotel, the wall by pass road (search for the Palestinian truck on that road) the additional small stretch of wall o the next hill.

Decide for yourself:

Will this stop suicide bombers ?

Will this cause the residents of Abu Dis to move away ?

Keep in mind that at the bottom of the picture, there is also no wall. It is actually continue now for a bit more then seen on this picture but ends soon after the Abu Dis main road.

Posted by Reporter @ 04/14/2004 01:58 PM CST

So why build it? There's an opening in it right? So is it a bad thing? A good thing? So if I have a problem with my neighbours i'll just put them in a box? Sounds like a great idea!

Posted by Mat @ 04/15/2004 02:56 PM CST

Mr.'s "Reporter" & "Facts Vs. Propaganda",

I could be wrong about this wall issue. After all, when you get information directly from the people who are affected by an action, they aren't likely to tell you the truth -- right?

I have a couple of questions:
1) Why is entire route of the wall not on the Green Line?
2) What gives Israel the right to build this barrier on Palestinian land?
3) Does the route deviate from the Green Line to encompass settlements built on Palestinian land? Or is it because only Israel considers the "Territories" to be "disputed" and subject to colonization?
4) If there are gaps in the barrier, why build it?
5) Are the gaps just temporary? If so, will the gaps be closed totally sealing off the West Bank when the barrier is finally completed?
6) Is the barrier really about security or is it about control and intimidation? I say this because in travelling around the West Bank I had to pass and in many cases get turned back from the numerous IDF checkpoints. What I found was that by taking a little detour, there was always a way around these checkpoints. To me, this has everything to do with harassment and humiliation but has nothing to do with security.
7) What will you say to your leaders when the barrier does not accomplish what they claim it is supposed to do? If you're honest with yourself, you'll admit that in the long term nothing positive will come from this wall/fence/barrier or what ever you choose to call it.

To answer your question, yes I believe that every person and every nation-state has an irrefutable right to defend its life and property. And yes, the Jewish people have a right to a border (the Green Line) for their nation. But that right ceases to exist when that border encroaches on Palestinian land, either by way of a barrier or a settlement - disputed territory or not.

You said that Mr. Odetella didn't offer a solution for preventing suicide bombings. No I suppose he didn't. I hope that your wall will prevent further deaths on both sides. That should be the ultimate goal shouldn't it?

Let me emphasize my belief that no rational person could see suicide bombings as anything other than horrible things. And I do consider myself a rational person. I don't agree with the killing of any innocent civilian. That being said, it seems to me that your government and mine have the same screwed-up belief that they can solve things by treating the symptoms of a problem instead of finding out what the true cause is.

Hopeless and powerless people will use the only thing left to them to fight back with - their bodies. Hopelessness in a society will never be conquered with force. A government that believes it can defeat hopelessness spawned violence or protests by the use of more violence will only succeed in creating an endless supply of martyrs and river of blood. Is that what you want?

Posted by Steven Beikich @ 04/16/2004 01:22 AM CST

Dear Steve,

I am glad we agree on the facts now. The photo clearly shows that I told the truth.

As for your questions:

The barrier in central Israel, is built almost along the green line and is completed in the northern part is VERY AFFECTIVE.

On the other hand the barrier in Jerusalem is not affective, built far from the green line and as a result will take years to complete (if ever)

Israelis want an effective barrier from suicide bombers.

I agree with you that the fence is route is not final and that final borders between Israel and Palestine have to be negotiated, the green-line is only an armistice line set at the end of the 48-49 war . Nothing is sacred about this line.

Posted by Reporter @ 04/16/2004 06:35 PM CST

Good fences make good Neighbors.

Howdy folks I'm an Israeli citizen. This wall issue raises the fur on the back of my neck. Pro fence Con fence blah blah blah. As an Israeli citizen I'm interested for my people and my country. The so called Palestinians are my enemy. We are at war with an enemy. This enemy is part of a larger Arab host that remains in a state of war against my people.
Let's get some facts in a proper line. Prior to the Ottoman defeat at the hands of the Allies in 1917 did this empire call the region of the world known today as Israel/Palestine by either this or that name? No.
When then did the name Palestine come into the picture? Has anyone ever heard of the League of Nations and the Mandate given unto the international community to the British to administer for the purpose of establishing Jewish homerule? What does a mandate legally entail? At the Peace of Paris President Wilson, the 'author' of the League of Nations, suggested to the victorious Allied governments ways to administer conquored territories of the defunct German and Ottomen empires. The Mandate system was suggested with the purpose of allowing the indigenous populations to eventually establish independence and homerule. Arabs living in the territories of the defunct Ottomen empire that latter took on the name Palestine/Transjordan, penned by the British, were they the original native inhabitants? We Jews have gone 2000 years of exile from our home country is there a statue of limitations when we cease being the original inhabitants? This blah about Palestinian lands and the Green line in my mind is only propaganda by our enemies and I for one say No Mercy To The Enemies Of Israel.

Posted by Moshe Kerr @ 04/28/2004 10:51 AM CST

Good fences make good Neighbors.

Howdy folks I'm an Israeli citizen. This wall issue raises the fur on the back of my neck. Pro fence Con fence blah blah blah. As an Israeli citizen I'm interested for my people and my country. The so called Palestinians are my enemy. We are at war with an enemy. This enemy is part of a larger Arab host that remains in a state of war against my people.
Let's get some facts in a proper line. Prior to the Ottoman defeat at the hands of the Allies in 1917 did this empire call the region of the world known today as Israel/Palestine by either this or that name? No.
When then did the name Palestine come into the picture? Has anyone ever heard of the League of Nations and the Mandate given unto the international community to the British to administer for the purpose of establishing Jewish homerule? What does a mandate legally entail? At the Peace of Paris President Wilson, the 'author' of the League of Nations, suggested to the victorious Allied governments ways to administer conquored territories of the defunct German and Ottomen empires. The Mandate system was suggested with the purpose of allowing the indigenous populations to eventually establish independence and homerule. Arabs living in the territories of the defunct Ottomen empire that latter took on the name Palestine/Transjordan, penned by the British, were they the original native inhabitants? We Jews have gone 2000 years of exile from our home country is there a statue of limitations when we cease being the original inhabitants? This blah about Palestinian lands and the Green line in my mind is only propaganda by our enemies and I for one say No Mercy To The Enemies Of Israel.

Posted by Moshe Kerr @ 04/28/2004 10:51 AM CST

Much has been said and written about the obscene WALL in Abu Dis. I offer this Power Point Presentation on the WALL in Abu Dis. I would also like to remind you that the wall is still not complete…It seems to me that there are some who would like to trivialize and minimize the Palestinian suffering caused the occupation and specifically this nefarious WALL by sidetracking the real issue (the clear catastrophic impact on every day Palestinian life) by looking for “loop holes” as if they were lawyers trying to get their client off on a technicality even though they know deep down in their heart that their client is guilty!...

Anyhow, for the open minded, take a look for yourselves…

http://hanini.org/AbuDis.ppt

Posted by Mike Odetalla @ 04/28/2004 06:58 PM CST

The situation in Abu Dis has not changed for 3 month.

While Mike's powerpoint focuses on the 700 meters that are built, this photos show the real situation:

http://www.iwps-pal.org/ftpiwps/web/quds/THE%20WALL%20FROM%20THE%20MOUNT%20OF%20OLIVES%20reduced.jpg

200 meters behind the cliff hotel the wall is not built, there is no construction there. The palestinian have completed a "wall by-pass road" and a palestinian truck is seen in the photo driving on that road.

For 2K'm between Abu-Dis and Swarjhe there is no wall - it is open space and anyone can cross there.

And if you really would be a peace actvists concerned about "destruction of property" (as shown in your PPT) you would include the photo of the eploded bus that was placed near the wall....

And yes, People were killed in that bus.

Posted by Reporter @ 04/28/2004 09:42 PM CST


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