Death of a terrorist and the stupidity of the Israeli left

03/22/2004

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Original text copyright by the author and MidEastWeb for Coexistence, RA. Posted at MidEastWeb Middle East Web Log at http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000229.htm where your intelligent and constructive comments are welcome. Distributed by MEW Newslist. Subscribe by e-mail to mew-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. Please forward by email with this notice and link to and cite this article. Other uses by permission.

by Moderator @ 03:09 PM CST [Link]

Replies: 16 comments

Peace Now, is a group, whose ideas are in the past, and are no longer relevant in a time when negotiations are not a possibility. You cannot "dialogue" with terrorist leaders, and death is the only language they respect and understand. Peace Now has demostrated that tehy are "caught in a quagmire" of 1960's semtiments which do not apply to the tactics of high tech and massmurder today.

Posted by Allyson @ 03/22/2004 04:59 PM CST

Mr. Isseroff makes a point, but a narrow one: the Israeli peace movement will be hurt politically by calling the assassination of Sheikh Yassin stupid and counterproductive. But he also appears to agree with that opinion of Sharon's action--a view shared even by the US's staunch British ally, who also inconveniently point out Israel's cavalier attitude toward international law. So maybe both Sharon and the Israeli Left, as well as the Israeli public who think actions of this kind are useful, are all irredeemably stupiod. So may be the Palestinians, but then we Americans are not paying their bills and indulging their stupidities to the extent that we do those of the Israelis. As an American, I want to know why we continue to subsidize such stupidity, and perpetuate an "entangling" alliance if ever there was one. But I of course know the answer: a lust for pro-Israeli money and votes. Those of us opposed to this folly are organizing to put an end to it. It will be a long and difficlt fight, but Mr. Sharon yesterday made it that much easier. Whatta Shmuck!

Posted by Ed McCarthy (Maine Peace &Justice in I&P @ 03/22/2004 05:17 PM CST

i think what you guys are saying here about killing yassin is wrong. But to Ed McCarthy i think you are very wrong. Even thogh what the isralis did was like thrwoing gass in to a fire i still dont think we should stop sappourting theme. The isralis are among the hand full of nations that help us and give us good intelegence in the mideast. And plus it is very profitable for us (meaning america) to have israel there. BOth finacialy and politicaly. we get a lot of our intelegnce from israel, we also get a lot of technology from thme. In addition to that the israelis are very advance in fighting these terorist doggs who are constantly attacking us. Why does my friend have to fight in iraq. it all because of these terorist doggs that give a bad name to muslims. why does a chiled have to be blown up on the way to school. why does a husband and a father have to burn alive in a train bombing on his way to work. so in my opinion kill all thse animals all of theme.pleas note that in no way am i trying to imply antything towrds the muslim people. my best friend is muslim i am just saying f these terorist that pleg the US,israel, and all the free world countries. IF you have somthing to say pleas do post it i will be cheking regularly. pleas post your reply. i will be checking this stie. Just write for Rambad

Posted by Rambad @ 03/22/2004 10:51 PM CST

Ahmed Yassin has spouted ignorance and hate for many years. His only message to his people was to destroy Israel. What an ugly vision he must have of his "God". His level of intellect was less than that of a rabid dog. Yassin, by his own hatred, caused his own death. Not being able to live alongside others that were different than himself, his mere existance became his own Hell. May he, as well as the rest of the world, find peace in his passing.

Posted by B.C. @ 03/23/2004 12:42 AM CST

The Israeli peace movement sounds a lot like the US peace movement, before the Iraq war. Every cause was added to the protests, drowning out the real message.
The left is more interested in 'preaching to the choir' than in building broad based support.
On another point, the British govt. is upset! After joining the US in a war that had no valid reason to be fought and that has caused the loss of many innocent lives...brother!

Posted by Karen @ 03/23/2004 03:02 AM CST

" it is very profitable for us (meaning america) to have israel there. BOth finacialy and politicaly. we get a lot of our intelegnce from israel,... " Indeed for it proves Americans are not sincere in handling the crisis for they will always be looking for their PROFIT and not not justice. My friend nobody likes to blow himself unless his life has been made so miserable that he HAS to take revenge no matter whether the person is innocent or not. Talk about truth not about profits ..go find the reality about these suicide bombers...Do they have jobs, families left or all demolished by Israel. I hope you look beyond american profit and into human justice and truth behind the story.

Posted by Asif @ 03/23/2004 03:30 PM CST

Many so-called Israeli and Jewish and American peace activisits pay only lip service to a peaceful resolution to the conflict in the Middle East and to the plight of Palestinians under the occupation. Many want peace but when it comes down to the actual plan for it, no one has any ideas.
Israel has had a history of assassinating moderates within the Palestinian community as a strategy to negate the peace process. Settlements continued to be built after the different accords and the United Nations resolutions. Periods of calm within Israel are measured by the presence or absence of suicide bombings while many forget that Palestinians continue to be killed on a daily basis even when no attacks are warranted.
We have to be honest with ourselves. No one can occupy a nation and expect that nation to sit by quietly while its lands are stolen on a daily basis and its children are killed.
The reality remains that in the eyes of many, Arab lives are still worth little. Being critical of the peace movement in Israel for protesting the assassination is an indication that there is not true understanding of the roots of the conflict.
The current goverment (and previous governments) really had no genuine desire to grant the Palestinians autonomy in any form and all attempts at self-governance were sabotaged by both the Israeli government and the extremists.
The root of the problem remains the occupation and the continued expansion of settlements which many do not seem to mind.
It is time for the Jews of the world, and especially in the United States, to stand up and hold the Israeli government accountable for what it is committing in their name.
Yassin, Sharon, and others like them are but a by-product of the political ideology that created this tragedy in the first place. It is about time we stopped blaming the oppressed for their plight.
I would argue that the peace movement has been far too passive. They are too much in the center and are not advocating enough for the victims of war. Hamas commits terrorist acts, but so does the Israeli government on a daily basis when it uproots people out of their homes, kills unarmed children, and destroys whole villages.
It is about time we held states as well as individuals accountable for the terrorist acts they commit.
Instead of criticizing the peace movement in Israel, we should focus our attention on lobbying for a just settlemet of the conflict. But talking about justice while continuing land grabbing, racism, and murder is but an exercise in murderous hypocrisy.
It seems from what is happening the two state solution is no longer a viable option for either nation. I think it is time that Israel adopted a more universally based democratic system and formulated a constitution that is inclusive of all its citizens, not only the Jewish ones. All nations that are based on religious paradigms are oppressive by nature. Maybe the solution is that the Occupied Territories and Israel should combine and become one nation for all of their citizens.
We cannot expect humanistic and just principles when we insist of reverting to archaic biblical and koranic ways of doing business because neither has been inclusive of the other.
Time to join the human race, not the Jewish or the Palestinian race.

Posted by Marilyn Farhat @ 03/23/2004 09:34 PM CST

As one who has spent half his life working for Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation, I must take issue with comments advocating the "one state solution". Given the birthrate differential between Israelis and Palestinians, this is nothing more than a barely concealed attempt to destroy Israel. While I despise Sharon (and think he should have been tried in 1982 for complicity in mass murder), I also despise Hamas, which is his logical counterpart. I believe the killing of Yassin was a tactical mistake, but I shed no tears. Just don't let it be used as an excuse for some people's barely hidden agenda to get rid of Israel. If there is room for 22 Arab states (including eventually a Palestine living in peace alongside of Israel hopefully), isn't there room for 1 Jewish state?

Posted by Kenneth Knoppow @ 03/24/2004 01:32 AM CST

Israel, like the United States, are the perpetuators of terror. The U.S. and Israel, along with Britain, France, etc., have the military power to destroy the world. The U.S. and Israel assassinating, bombing and occupying is as immoral as anyone who kills with a single bomb or gun.

The U.S. and Israeli governments only have one "solution" - war and more war. Palestinians are a nation seeking a country. The Israel wwar in 1947-8 was a colonial war complete with ethnic cleansing, destruction of towns and executions / murder. Ideally, Israel / Palestine would become a democratic state with no preference for religion, ethnicity, etc. Otherwise, Israel will remain a state for one religious group at the expense of the indigenous people. The decisions of Sharon and the U.S. government continue the oppression and occupation.

When I was young I didn't believe South Africa would be free. It is hard to believe Palestine will be free but it is possible - maybe inevitable.

Posted by Donna @ 03/24/2004 06:17 AM CST

The Hamas Charter calls for the destruction of Israel, and the establishment of a Palestinian state from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River.

There is no willingness to cooperate with Israel, only the determination to see it destroyed by any means possible. Israel is determined to defend itself and survive.

Posted by Howard G. Brown @ 03/24/2004 07:19 AM CST

Donna buys into the South Africanization of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This is a popular and misguided notion beneath which is the insistance that the Jewish people have no legitimate place among the family of nations.

It is worth reminding that it is not Jews, Israelis and Zionists insisting upon the mutual exclusivity of a secure Israel and an independent Palestine. Rather it is the constituencies of an ostensible peace and human rights community who do so.

Posted by Zionista @ 03/24/2004 03:29 PM CST

this is the reply to the person who said the blow thme selfs up because life is so bad it think thats bs. and they have no respect for humen life. Why is it that when the leaders are about to die the protect thmeselfs but when a brain washed kid voulentiers himself to be blowen up they chear him on. The leaders are the reall criminal.

i think it is crazy to say the palestinians are killing thme selfs because life is so bad for thme. Life was bad for jews to but they kept on beuilding and beuilding. If all these diffrent groups instead of spending money in maing sueside bombebers and isted put the money in building and developing what ever pice of land they have in a peacfull manner who is there to tell them it is not there land.

Posted by Rambad @ 03/24/2004 10:07 PM CST

god i hate u star wearing, holocaust surviving fuckers. pity hitler didnt finish the job

Posted by kike o hara @ 03/26/2004 11:33 AM CST

Perhaps the original question has pointed to something significant which points to a 'dumbness' of what the original question may have ignored yet acknowledged indirectly in the very asking?

That the political act of suicide is extra-ordinary and that for someone to have been driven to such an act the question heralds, and that in asking the question it attempts not to loose sight of the sheer violence of the act by virtue of the possibility of an apparent valued judgement of "Can you think of anything dumber.....?'

Indeed what is the appeal of the question and to whom? Is it that it cannot understand the unbearable weight of the act of suicide and in response begs a real question to you as to the irreconcilability of the act and its polity as in the interval of the the conflict between two, at least, sites of interest?

Is the question violent?

Perhaps necessarily so, though what the question may do is perpetuate a violence by way an 'ignorance' of the question's conception of the act in naming what in truth cannot be named and yet may be said to belligerently appear to attempt to name and violently so.

Is the question careless in that refuses to consider the nature of its own question and the desire of its questioner?

Thank you for the original question.

Posted by louis @ 04/16/2004 04:50 AM CST

Perhaps the original question has pointed to something significant which points to a 'dumbness' of what the original question may have ignored yet acknowledged indirectly in the very asking?

That the political act of suicide is extra-ordinary and that for someone to have been driven to such an act the question heralds, and that in asking the question it attempts not to loose sight of the sheer violence of the act by virtue of the possibility of an apparent valued judgement of "Can you think of anything dumber.....?'

Indeed what is the appeal of the question and to whom? Is it that it cannot understand the unbearable weight of the act of suicide and in response begs a real question to you as to the irreconcilability of the act and its polity as in the interval of the the conflict between two, at least, sites of interest?

Is the question violent?

Perhaps necessarily so, though what the question may do is perpetuate a violence by way an 'ignorance' of the question's conception of the act in naming what in truth cannot be named and yet may be said to belligerently appear to attempt to name and violently so.

Is the question careless in that refuses to consider the nature of its own question and the desire of its questioner?

Thank you for the original question.

Posted by louis @ 04/16/2004 04:51 AM CST

Perhaps the original question has pointed to something significant which points to a 'dumbness' of what the original question may have ignored yet acknowledged indirectly in the very asking?

That the political act of suicide is extra-ordinary and that for someone to have been driven to such an act the question heralds, and that in asking the question it attempts not to loose sight of the sheer violence of the act by virtue of the possibility of an apparent valued judgement of "Can you think of anything dumber.....?'

Indeed what is the appeal of the question and to whom? Is it that it cannot understand the unbearable weight of the act of suicide and in response begs a real question to you as to the irreconcilability of the act and its polity as in the interval of the the conflict between two, at least, sites of interest?

Is the question violent?

Perhaps necessarily so, though what the question may do is perpetuate a violence by way an 'ignorance' of the question's conception of the act in naming what in truth cannot be named and yet may be said to belligerently appear to attempt to name and violently so.

Is the question careless in that refuses to consider the nature of its own question and the desire of its questioner?

Thank you for the original question.

Posted by louis @ 04/16/2004 04:54 AM CST

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