Killing Ahmed Yassin: What is the point?

03/22/2004

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Original text copyright by the author and MidEastWeb for Coexistence, RA. Posted at MidEastWeb Middle East Web Log at http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000228.htm where your intelligent and constructive comments are welcome. Distributed by MEW Newslist. Subscribe by e-mail to mew-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. Please forward by email with this notice and link to and cite this article. Other uses by permission.

by Moderator @ 11:32 AM CST [Link]

Replies: 27 comments

The natural reaction is one of glee as a result of the assassination of one of the architects of Hamas and Co terrorism. However, on examining the possible repercussions in Palestinian street, the question that one ought to ask is: Was this such a wise move?

Sheik Ahmad Yassin was a spiritual leader to his supporters and to kill a spiritual leader can be very dangerous. It can only increase the motivation of the Hamas organization and its allies to further carry out terrorist attacks. Is this desirable in this very volatile part of the world?

There is no doubt that revenge will not take long in coming. At the moment hate and revenge rhetoric is running high and there will be an attempt to translate this rhetoric to cruel deeds.

It seems that the whole purpose of this operation was to improve Sharon's standing amongst the right wing members of his coalition and to take away the attention that he is receiving because of his own personal problems with the law.

Posted by Shimon Z. Klein @ 03/22/2004 12:24 PM CST

Ami, I take exception to your choice of words regarding the 1997 negotiations that resulted in Israel releasing Ahmed Yassin.

It is factually inaccurate to say, as you did, that 'Israeli agents bungled an attempt to assassinate' a particular Hamas spokesman.

1. Khaled Mashaal was a pubic and press spokesman for Hamas, but he was also a Hamas insider, a Hamas leader. No one cared about killing a press spokesman; it was the fact that he was an 'inner team' leader that was the concern.

2. The word 'assassinate' is not coterminous with 'kill.' The 'A' word applies to killings of heads of state not involved in military efforts, or other comparable civilians. Had Mashaal been killed, it would have been just that: the killing of a vicious Hamas leader. Whether this would have been militarily significant is a matter of judgment, but such a killing, while regrettable, would have been morally justified.

3. Most important, Israeli agents didn't 'bungle' anything. They used their best efforts to accomplish a mission that, for various reasons not all known to us, did not work. The mission was not successful, but this was not due to agents 'bungling' anything. They did their best.

In 1997, Yassin was released from prison as part of a deal made after Israeli agents bungled an attempt to assassinate Hamas spokesman Khaled Mashaal in Jordan.

Posted by Fredric M. Carlin @ 03/22/2004 02:18 PM CST

You wrote "He inspired and instigated murders, but he didn't carry them out". Neither did Hitler, Eichmann, or Bin Laden.

The poor spiritual cripple only headed a terrorist organization that send women and children as homicide bombers to slaughter innocent Jewish civilians.

Posted by mike levine @ 03/22/2004 05:50 PM CST

Ami Isseroff's observation that, "Peace does not profit the leaders" sounds a note of truth that is seldom spoken aloud. -- But I wonder what Peace is imagined to look like: for a Palestinian, is Peace 'the absence of Jews'? For a Jewish Israeli, is Peace 'the absence of Palestinians'?
Israel/Palestine, the mythical Holy Land of so many people, is a refuge to no one, a terrible warning to everyone. If G-d/I AM/Allah (may His name be blessed) were a Mother, she'd take the Toy away from all of us...

Posted by Ruth @ 03/22/2004 06:12 PM CST

Aged 47 i've come to the conclusion that as long as israel exists to further western self interest in the middel east there can never be justice or peace for the palestinians or indeed any future for the muslim world. The islamic faith hampers the spread of failed western capitalist logic, that logic is provable as unsustainable ecologically and will lead to the continued and ultimate end of the planet we recognise today. As a graduate educated individual i find myself today for the first time in my life contemplating donating money to the continued existence of an outlawed organisation who fight for the rights of an oppressed minority, ie. Hamas. The state of Israel has shot itself in the foot with this latest act of folly and the tide is turning against so called western democracies.

Posted by Britishwhitemale47 @ 03/22/2004 09:52 PM CST

Sheik Ahmad Yassin a spiritual leader? I would say more like a cult leader. He belongs alongside the likes of the "Rev." Jim Jones, Charles Manson, et.al. There is no void left where he once was, and the cries of the Palenstians for revenge are softened by the knowledge that this poor, "disabled" zealot has a voice no more. Sad to say, but the world is closer to peace than it was before.

Posted by B.C. @ 03/23/2004 01:05 AM CST

This was not about getting rid of an enemy of Israel. This was about the Israeli govt publicly flexing it's muscle.
We all know that Sheik Yassin could have been "secretly" assassinated, if getting rid of an enemy was the objective.
With the inevitable retaliation against innocent Israeli civilians, may their govt ministers have endless, long, sleepless nights!!!!!!
FTR. I am neither pro Palestinian, nor Anti Israeli.
As a German, I am totally ashamed of what my country did to the Jews! Thru my life I have been proud to call several Jews Friend!
As an Australian, I was sickened by 911! And Bali! Still I call a Muslim workmate Friend!

Posted by Rolf Tremayne @ 03/23/2004 04:15 AM CST

Some might say that Bush has inspired and instigated murders through his wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and through his country's economic and military support of Israel.

and Ruth - I quite liked your comments. She would indeed take it away

Rolf - cheers! I wish that more people who thought like you were in positions of power. Bush should take note.

Posted by An Earth dweller @ 03/23/2004 08:02 AM CST

To Britishwhitemale47, who claims to be a graduate educated individual, your comments belie your so-called education. You obviously have "learned" under the grasp of extremely biased liberalism. To suggest that Western democracy left unchecked will lead to the ultimate destruction of the planet is idiotic. Go ahead and donate to Hamas or whatever terrorist organization you choose (on behalf of the world's oppressed). This makes you no better than these terrorists, but then people who think like you are as much a danger to a civilized society as the cold blooded killers of Hamas.

Posted by Roberto Guisseppe @ 03/23/2004 09:37 AM CST

Regarding the comment by Britishwhitemale47, I find your logic a bit misguided. Granted, the First World countries are doing much to wreck havoc on the planet however, declaring your support for groups like Hamas and other Islamic extremists is not the solution. Most, if not all of these organizations are quite fascist in thier politics, repressive of women's rights, gay rights, freedom of speech and human rights in general, unconcerned with the state of the global environment, pro-violence, pro-war and intollerant of views that run contrary to thier own ideologies. How can a so-called educated person believe that such organizations are the future's salvation? I do not agree with my government's (Israel), policies regarding the conflict with the Palestinians nor do I agree with many of the policies of other Western governments however to lionize an organization that promotes terror and the murder of innocents is simply ignorant and an affront to those who truly wish to bring about a peaceful and sane change in the world

Posted by N. Barshlomo @ 03/23/2004 07:46 PM CST

After reading the article and the following posts, I think the people who vote or elect these leaders (morons) to power are the people at fault. They do not think rationally before electing these individulas to power. Instead they are herded and stampead like cattle off of a cliff to serve the politicians own interests. If people could step back, realise that their religions do not give them the right to kill another human being, the bloodshed would not only stop, but maybe there could be peace for them and their families.

May god help us all in these troubled times.

Posted by Raj R. @ 03/23/2004 09:39 PM CST

every one who said that ahmed yaseen is terror is a terroresm

Posted by sallam @ 03/23/2004 11:35 PM CST

all the terrorists must die, or change their ways.
Every dictatorship must fall.

May we never surrender to the terror, freedom for everyone!

Posted by yes_im_swedish @ 03/24/2004 01:11 AM CST

As the article suggests, while it appears that Palestinian and Israeli actions and counter-actions are designed to bolster the prestige of each faction within each society, the ultimate responsibility lies with the Western world's failure (particulalry since Munich in 1972) to categorically reject and stand up against terrorism and terrorist organizations.

Unfortunately, there will be no peace anywhere - as the recent Madrid bombing prove - until we are all united (including France and Germany)in our stand against terror. We must make everyone understand that terrorism in any form and perpetrated for any reason will not be tolerated and will never be appeased or rewarded. Only then will the cycle of violence be broken.

Posted by Dan (USA) @ 03/24/2004 02:29 AM CST

You Palestinians and all Muslim Arabs must swallow something. Until the average Muslim fights fundamentalist terrorism, it will be true that all of Islam is a religion of terror.
Some Muslims are for terrorism and some are neutral. This is a formula for a take over of the whole religion by it's radical terrorist elements.
Where are the peace loving muslims? Who from your community condemns these acts? No, your people are neutral or pro-terrorism and so you religion, by the acts of it's followers, is a religion of hatred.

Posted by scott @ 03/24/2004 04:09 AM CST

Targeting civilians is cowardly, not godly!
No Holy end will be achieved by unholy actions.
Western civilization might not be the answer, but Love and humanity that includes the rights and respect of all, especially women, IS.
Hate begets hate and we lose sight of Love, Truth, and God.
Blinded by jealousy, anger, and intolerance is the problem here. Not Palestine, Israel, or the U.S.
Talking of GOD and then falling prey to the lie and illusion that we are separate and different from one another.

One day we will give it up because it doesn't work.

Posted by Sonny @ 03/24/2004 06:12 AM CST

I CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT I AM READING!!!!! WHAT IS THE POINT IN KILLING YASSIN? ISRAEL KNEW WHERE HE WAS . WHY DIDNT THEY GO IN UNDERCOVER AND ARREST HIM? NO!!! THEY WANTED TO MAKE A POINT , TIT FOR TAT !!!!! THRE IS NO REASON OR LOGIC FOR THIS CRIME, KILLING A CRIPPLE IN A WHEELCHAIR? YES I BELIEVE THAT YASSIN WAS A TERRORIST , BUT IF WE BELIEVE IN KILLING THE TERRORIST WHO ORDER THE BOMBINGS, THEN SHAORN IS A TERRORIST AND WE SHOULD UNITE AND HAVE SHARON TERMINATED. HE ORDERED THE KILING OF INNOCENTS , BYSTANDERS AND DOES IT IN THE NAME OF GLOBAL WAR ON TERRORISM ANS SECURITY. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS MY JEWISH FRIENDS !!! I REALLY FEEL FOR YOUR PEOPLE, YOU HAVE SUFFERED ENOUGH , IT IS ABOUT TIME THAT THAT THE JEWISH PEOPLE SHOULD LIVE IN PEACE AND SECURITY. THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERRORISM IS NOT THE SAME FIGHT THAT THE US IS DOING , WE ARE NOT OCCUPYING A PEOPLE, WE NEVER DID . WE WERE ATTACKED INNOCENTLY AND COWARDLY. THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE ARE FIGHTING FOR THEIR HOMELAND THAT ISRAEL TOOK AWAY FROM THEM. YES ISRAEL WON THE 6 DAY WAR YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR. I HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME . BUT ISRAEL HAS NO RIGHT TO KEEP THIS LAND THAT WAS NOT GIVEN TO THEM BY THE 1948 BALFOUR PARTITION ( I MAY HAVE THE YEAR WRONG) ISRAEL HAS THE DUTY TO RETURN THE LAND THEY TOOK BUT THEY SHOULD IN RETURN GET SOMETHING BACK ( PEACE ) SOMETHING THAT EVERY ISRAELI GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO DO . YOU OPPRESS A PEOPLE AND THEY JUST HARDEND EVEN MORE !!!!! EVOLUTION CANNOT MOVE FAST ENOUGH TO TAKE CARE OF THE TERRORIST SHARON , SOMEBODY HAS TO !!! EVERYONE PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS , SHARON IS MAKING YOUR BED AND YOUR CHILDREN (ISRAELI AND PALISTINIAN ) WILL HAVE TO SLEEP IN IT AND PAY THE PRICE. WHAT EVER SHARAON DOES THE CHILDREN WILL PAY DEARLY. IT IS UP TO THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL AND PALESTINE TO CHANGE THE COURSE OF THIS MADNESS BEFORE IS IT TOO LATE .
MAY THE STAR OF DAVID , THE GOD OF ALLAH COME TOGETHER IN PEACE AND SHOWER THEIR PEOPLE WITH PEACE!!!!!!!!

Posted by Steve @ 03/24/2004 06:55 AM CST

The current situation in the Middle east and the greater muslim world bear histroicaly sinsiters accuracies with events in the past century except with religion as its core.

World War I was fought between the Old empires of Europe with nationalism and empire as its main casues. 4 years o f total war and 60 million dead.

World War II was fought between the Facists governments and the Democraices of the west and the rising power of communism. 6 years of total war with 50+ million dead.

The Cold War - 45 years on constant rivalry with the world tinkering on the brink of nuclear destruction. Countless regional wars fought and supported by both the Communist East and Democratic West. Total causulties who knows.

And now i fear that a new war is upon us. Not a war on terror but a war that will reshape this planet that has not been seen since the end of World War II.

There is a good resone why the the muslim world is so far behind in technologicaly and economicaly. As long as Governemts continue to link there relgion with Politics it will never change. There must be a seperation of power where the church does not influence public thinking. This happened in Europe hundreds of years ago and lead rise to the modern democraceis of today. The people of the Middle east need to stop blaming others and solve there own problems. Who did europe have to blame when they struggled through 2,000 years of constant fighting amongst them selves and foriegn invaders. Stand up for yourselves but not with guns and sucide bombers reform your goverments befor it is to late.

If this does not happen, i can see only one outcome. The time will come when a massive terrorits strike in Europe or the US or both will force the West to intervene massivly in the Middle East. When i mean massivly i mean total war, a war that is waged to destroy every government and nation that supports terrorists. It wont be a war fought in the US or Europe it will be fought in and around your homelands with casualities much like the previous two world wars. Only then after years of war and millions of dead, and suffering so great you will come to believe that it is simple not worth keeping these petty differences and learn to live and respect each others relgions and rights.

You may believe that you can win such a war but you are wrong, you cannot oppose the might of the entrie free democratic world, Sucide bombers are not knew Japan has used them for thousands of years in its Samuria code, and in much larger numbers.

Humans seems to be slow learners, we only change our societies and nations after great castraphoies and wars, its seems as though the Middle east will learn this lesson in the not to distant future.

I believe all Humans every where have the right to be free, not told what religion to worship, or what government to support. No governemt or religion has the right to demand or expect loyality. It is up to the individual to choses which religion or government they wish. Governemtns are here to serve the people not to serve them selves and there own self intrests.

Until this goal is acheived there will never be peace. Some times peace can only be found on the other side of war.

Lets us hope that the moderates in the Middle east are sucessful and can avoid needless bloodsheed.

Posted by Mike8472 @ 03/24/2004 08:53 AM CST

In reference to Steve (03/24/2004). Your comment is biased and factually wrong, thus your conclusion is absurd and ridiculuous.
1) Sharon never oredered the kiling of civilians,-granted in anti-terror/self defence operations innocent civilians may die, but casualties is part of any war.If one was to keep to your absurd logic, any leader who enganges in a war against a legitimate enemy is a 'terrorist' (did civilians not die in WW1,WW2,ETC) thus terrorist would include US presidents such as Wilson in WW1, and FDR in WW2.
2)Israel is not a colonial occupier. Your facts are totally wrong, the Balfour declaration(1917) guarntedd a jewsih Land in the middle east but never mentioned any borders, whilst the UN Partion Plan's(1947)borders where in existence for only mere hours after Israel declaration in may 1948 not due to Israeli reluctance to accept(Israel accepted the terms without reservation) but due too 5 unfriendly Arab nations immediately declaring there desire to eliminate Israel through war.
3) Moreover, your assertion that all Israeli goverments have refused to give back the land,m that Israel won in the 1967 War(a war fought to manitain Israel security at a time when Nasser's Egypyt along with other Arab nations was calling for the immediate end to Israel,and actively amamsing troops at all of Isreal's borders) is wrong. Many goverments have done just that, Ehud Barak's labour goverment at Camp David in fact offered 95% of the so called 'occupied territories' including parts of Jerusalem, the remaining 5% was to be compensated by a land swop of proper Israel to a state of Palestine. The 5% kept by israel, were the most wholly Jewish site in the world, the wesatern wall and major western-West back settlements that would logistically not be viable to dismantle.Both areas would have allowed freedom of movement of Palestinians free from all Israeli control with freedom of movement within Gaza Strip and the west Bank respectively. Arafat infamously rejected the offer,-Clinton mainiatained Arafat through away his chance.

The Jewish people do not need 'friends' of your ignorant sort, that make uneducated decisons in much the same way as Britishmale47 does. Israel has tried to make peace, I always believed in the policies of peace and justice, in human dignity and in the polices of the Isreali that believes in two equal free states. However as Camp David demonstarted, only once all militant terrorists like Yassin and so-called moderate 'terrorists' like Arafat die or are eliminated or drastically change their desire to kill Israel will there be peace. Until then, Israel will have to protect itself and continue to wage a just war of self defence by builiding security walls, putting up entry barriers to Israel, and destroying any terrorist or terrorist organisation that threatens the lives of innocent Israeli men, women and children.

Posted by Jacques_South_AFrica @ 03/24/2004 11:07 PM CST

MAKE 2 COUNTRYS AND THEN SORT OUT THE DIFFERENCES AND IF YOU HAVE TO BUILT A STRAIGHT WALL FROM TOP TO BOTTOM

Posted by m gilboy @ 03/25/2004 03:25 AM CST

You got a very good point there.

Posted by DAn @ 03/25/2004 04:03 PM CST

If one is looking to combat any kind of terrorism, the ordinary historical rules apply: for so long as the men of violence can point to genuine grievances of a significant segment of the population, they will have the passive support of that part of the population and it will be impossible to contain them by the means considered acceptable in a civilised society.

Therefore it is necessary first to redress the grievances and thus detach the men of violence from their passive support. Then, and only then, the ordinary criminal justice procedures have a chance of success.

Ami Isseroff's comments have much validity. Sharon knew full well that the murder of a 66 year old quadriplegic and his entourage with missiles from a helicopter gunship would contribute nothing to the defeat of the intifada.

Sharon also knew full well that the Bush Administration, which claims the right to do exactly the same thing when that suits its purposes, could not say or do anything other than to voice the usual platitudes callling for "restraint on both sides".

We are sliding inexorably towards a long-running "Crusaders -v- Jihadists" conflict with the likely playing fields being the urban centres of Western Europe.

Considerations of human rights and civil liberties will go by the board in an effort to assure basic security - to no avail.

Just as the phenomenon of Al-Quai'da is seen by many as the unintended consequence of the proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan, the unintended consequence of the Bush 'n' Blair so-called "war on terror" may be the end of the 20th Century ideal of liberal democracies living in multi-racial and secular harmony - in short a new Dark Age or a new fascism.

Whether one examines the politics of the Muslim Brotherhood or of the Likud, one is indeed forced to the unpalatable conclusion that fascism is what they are all about.

Are our memories so short that we have forgotten the wages of fascism ?

Posted by Mourad Fleming @ 03/25/2004 11:37 PM CST

i am not agree of what happen to ahmed yassen he cannot move or do any thing u name what happen is victory i think he is victim

Posted by sara mohamed @ 04/02/2004 11:46 PM CST

Killing Sheik Ahmad Yassin was a foolish move as was the USA's refusal to condemn it. Israel's defense of this act, as I understand it, can be summed as: "The Sheik was responsible for terrorism against Israel. We will continue to kill anyone who endorses, supports or sponsers terrorism. It is our right." I think that sums up their position. But built into that statement is the idea that the only way to preserve Israel is to kill millions and millions of people since most Islamic people do support terrorism against Israel (Until recently I felt that most Islamic people did not support terrorism against the USA but the invasion of Irag has changed that.) Any realistic plan for the survival of Israel has to consider a formula for reducing Islamic rage and not just the killing of all those who support Palistinian terrorism. If one responds by saying that it's impossible to reduce that rage I would answer it's also impossible to kill all those who support Palestinian terror. At least a sincere attempt at a peaceful solution (one without constant assassination attempts) would gather some international support for Israel and give Muslim moderates an outlet for expression. Another defense I hear frequently from my fellow Americans is that if we have the right to go after bin Laden, Israel has the right to whack the Sheik. But that statement doesn't take into consideration hard politcal realities. The USA has the "right" to go after bin Laden because they've got the muscle to do it. "Might is right" may be a cliche and amoral but it's very true. Israel only has the "right" to assassinate it's opponents as long as the USA protects it. And although it does appear right now that the US support for Israel's more outrageous acts is inexhaustable, I'm not so sure that will be so after another year of disasterous news from Iraq and elsewhere. Eventually even Americans will start connecting the dots.

Posted by Richard J. Stewart @ 04/05/2004 03:51 PM CST

It is very interesting to read the comments posted by friends here. i would just like to add a few words to already much illustrated and well explained points of view. i agree with Mike8472 and Steve. We must, as Muslims and individuals, ask ourselves if it is right to kill innocent people, whatsoever their religion may be? Nowhere in Quran does Allah say that the killing of innocent men, women, children and elderly is justified....whatsoever the reason be. And when I say "innocent" I mean those people who have nothing doing with politics, religion or the killing of other people. Everytime I see a picture of some dead child in the arms of his/her parent, my heart crushes. Only a parent of a dead child knows how it feels to lose a son or a daughter. I appeal to all governments and political and religious leaders....In the name of your God, PLEASE STOP ORDERING AND BRAIN WASHING YOUR FOLLOWERS TO KILL PEOPLE, SPECIALLY THE INNOCENT ONES. It does not help solve the problem nor does it serve any purpose. Human life is precious and we all humans should learn to respect that before it is too late and millions more are victimized.

Posted by Asim Siddiq @ 04/09/2004 06:33 AM CST

let the women and MOTHERS sit at the table of peace...Palestinian and Jew....

Posted by nada @ 04/12/2004 02:15 PM CST

Finally.
So when will Arafat become the target?

Posted by stefan @ 04/12/2004 09:48 PM CST

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